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Discussing occultism and magick with my Christian father


Long story short, I am trying to have a discussion of my occult beliefs and practices with my Christian father.  He is deeply concerned about my interest in occultism, and wants to have a dialogue about these issues.  I recently mentioned in an email to him (he currently lives overseas) that I am working through the exercises in Franz Bardon's "Initiation into Hermetics".  I even sent him a pdf of the book (I told him I didn't expect him to read it, but I sent it to him anyway in case he was curious).  I am personally not a Christian.  I was raised in a very Christian household, but I now identify as pagan.  My dad basically had two seemingly contradictory perspectives to Bardon's work.  He sees it as both dangerous and as pseudoscience (he took issue with Bardon describing magick and mysticism as a science).  He does, however, want to have a dialog.  Among other things, he wants to know why I am drawn to the occult and magic rather than Christianity.  I have tried to explain this to him multiple times.  I am trying to figure out a way to discuss these issues with him in an email reply.  Very broadly speaking, I plan to explain again that when I was trying to follow Christianity when I was growing up, I had a constant nagging feeling that I was deceiving myself, and it caused me significant distress.  I find that through study of occult philosophy and the practice of magick, I am able to probe the spiritual aspects of reality directly rather than depending on a book that is full of dogma.  

One specific issue that led my dad to see Bardon's work as "pseudoscience" is the classical elements.  My personal understanding of the elements in the Western esoteric tradition is that they are simply categories.  I see them as a way to separate out different qualities or components that make up both the physical world and ourselves.  I see them as archetypes which can be mapped to, for example, different personality traits.  Can anyone give me some advice on how to articulate the classical elements in a way to demonstrate that it is not "pseudoscience"?  Another issue I wish to discuss with my father is that magick and esoteric philosophy can indeed be seen as a science, but since the purpose is to better understand consciousness and to connect with reality on a spiritual level, the methodologies are of course going to be different than those used in what are now referred to as "natural sciences".  In other words, modern science can study the mind through the lens of neuroscience, but I believe due to its very nature, consciousness is something that should be studied from the inside.  Meditation techniques and ritual work offer a valid way of studying consciousness and connecting with reality on a spiritual level.  

Does anyone have any ideas how I can better articulate these ideas or have a different perspective that they would like to share?  Thanks.

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You oughtta look into how these modern occultists have the source of their works in early Hebrew scripture, some of it valued by early sects of Christians, as well. He might be more open towards it if he looks into the Apocrypha and texts called Pseudepedigrapha. Modern Christians, Jews, and Muslims are very dependent on dogma and words of the priest, rabbis, and imams. Look to all the old "gnostic," "Coptic," and "kabbalistic" scripture, and show him that, while modern devotees may find it "heretical," it is certainly not evil....unless you make it evil, and end up worshipping fallen ones (hence why study is so important). There is more than one sect of Christianity. Some of what you are exploring fits in with that already.

Tread carefully, and hold light in your heart.

Good luck.

As to articulation, well.....if you can't put it in simpler terms, then you don't know it well enough yet anyways. To be honest, I don't know why you would reveal these things to your dad anyways. My dad is Jewish, so I leave out anything that isn't in mainstream Judea, when talking to him, though we very rarely talk of religion, he leans agnostic anyhow, truly. It is a personal experience, not a conversation topic for at the dinner table.

These conversations are best kept to places like this, with people who have already found their path, and of their own volition.
P.s. As a seeker myself, I ended up realizing that both the Old and New Testament are really important anyways. I never thought that's where I'd end up....but I did, as many honestly curious seekers do, who let go of their preconceptions. Do not equate scripture with the Church, proper, or you will never be able to open yourself to plenty of interesting "rabbit holes."

So, if all else fails, promise him to also devote time to Bible studies! Feel free to devote that time to discovering the breadcrumbs you will need, which are trailed throughout. I recommend either a literal translation, like one offered free on Google play, of both testaments, translated directly from the old tongues. Also, the King James versions are good. I first avoided them, because they are not literal and I don't like others interpreting for me, but once I learned about the man who wrote them......I trust his translations. So, I read both.

Happy seeking!

If you read Franz's book closely you would see that he says don't talk about your work with anyone =P

Anyways, since you let the cat out of the bag already, I would lead him to Part II of the book where it has the exercises and show him that they are just mental discipline exercises under Franz's natural law framework, meant to teach and strengthen one's focus, attention, concentration, etc.

As for the theory part of the book, show him that the theory can fall under the framework of christianity and that it isn't diametrically opposed to the beliefs of Christ and that in fact you can be a christian and magician at the same time. You still believe in the creator and hold the belief that man is made in the image of the Creator so its not too far off.....Just assure him that what you are doing isnt left hand path satanism or even dungeons and dragons buffoonery. Show him the most important lessons you learned from your studies and how it helped improve your intelligence and faculties. Show him that the word magick and self development are basically the same thing, how magick is not stage tricks or delusional fairytales, but that it is a type of psychology and self development program that doesnt involve a cult. 

Please note I don't know if your dad is a hardcore evangelical christian or a 7th day adventist or etc etc. I would not reveal too much if he is towards the evangelical spectrum. Its like arguing with a tree.

Good luck!


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