<Tris>: hey all
<lichtkind>: would be much more comfortable
<Sabrina>: Hey Hey
<DanielS>: he Tris
<Tris>: at the top left litchkind
<mac>: ready here
<Taron>: if we all went in this dark gray and let the leader have black that would be nice, it hink
<Taron>: i think
<Simica>: please if we could all keep our color to one basic black. it will be easier to see tris' writing if possible
<Muta>: ill go with that
<steve>: good idea sim
<Simica>: or grey works
<lichtkind_>: great found it
<Taron>: I think it's pleasant
<mac>: today is also Palm Sunday
<Yzuwex>: Palm Sunday?
<Taron>: is it? Sounds Baal-ish, hahaha
<SKYWRITER>: No foolin'?
<Yzuwex>: ah, a Jesus thing!
<Windplayer>: Maybe we should be palm reading?
<Yzuwex>: Wash your hands first, please.
<Tris>: ok - if everyone is ready, shall we go ahead and begin
<Taron>: Oh yes...
<Sabrina>: sounds good
<SKYWRITER>: Please do...
<Windplayer>: By all means.
<steve>: lets go !
<Tris>: So, like other discussions, we will work through the lesson as we did last time
<Muta>: Tris could we have you as different color as the rest of the flock
<Taron>: wished the rest would just go gray
<DanielS>: pal sunday on april fools
<Tris>: Just a short re-cap, last time we discussed the various stages and alchemist will go through when accomplishing the great work
<steve>: i like to pretend that this is a classroom and tris is the teacher so if the class could settle down and sit in their seats that would be great thanks
<Muta>: hey down in front
<Tris>: These are Nigredo, Cauda Pavonis, Albedo, and Rubedo
<Tris>: Again, these stages have a natural progression, however is rather sort of like a willed self evolution
<Tris>: During this discussion, we will go over the primary 5 aspects in alchemical philosophy, and next lesson we will begin to get into the alchemical processes
<Tris>: We will now go through these basic aspects to understand the process of the Great Work, which began with the One or as it's sometimes referred to as The All. Please take note as we begin, this is not about religion, or established dogma or creed - this is about advanced spiritual science pure and simple.
<mib_wifxg7>: my favorite
<Tris>: Therefore, when mentioning The One or The All, it may or may not be directly referring to deity, but rather the creative force which encompasses all that is and is not. The one is everything, every potentiality, every outcome; it is the Divine Principle and Prima Materia.
<Andy_L>: i'm here =D
<Tris>: The One is Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end of the Great Work and in this is sometime represented by the Ouroboros. This is one of the most perplexing and fulfilling aspects to fully understand, and many of us spend a lifetime attempting to do so.
<Tris>: welcome andy, glad you could make it
<Tris>: Everything in Alchemy, as in life, begins with the one.
<Andy_L>: np glad to get back into the swing of things tris. Is this your first topic?
<Tris>: The further aspects that come to follow, as known in esoteric traditions and systems of ageless wisdom, came down to aid in the further creative expression
<Tris>: In this way, in order for the One to better express itself and its divine nature, it became the two
<cycl0nis>: daym i didnt know u guyz connectd to irc...thank god
<cycl0nis>: brb lol
<Tris>: Duality, and the mystical union thereof, is very strongly expressed in alchemical works - in fact, one might call it a main or central aspect
<Tris>: In Alchemy, we see what is perhaps one of the most easily understood depictions of duality from all traditions. This is seen as the Sun and the Moon, or Sol and Luna, Sulphur and Mercury, or the Red King and the White Queen.
<horstmeier>: Is it only duality? Is it only black and white? Are there shades of grey?
<Tris>: please observe the following image [image #1]
<mib_wifxg7>: the triple goddess and her consort
<Taron>: (sorry to cut in, but...) I think to the Hebrew it is Elohim, the divine couple (male and female divinity)
<steve>: from one comes two, making three in total
<mib_wifxg7>: i thought Elohim was the one
<Taron>: no, but this is about alchemy...just thought I'd throw that in
<Tris>: this is one of the more detailed depictions of the working through of these two natures within us and all thing, a more simple and right to the point version can be seen in the caduceus
<steve>: elohim translated means "many gods" or something like that
<Tris>: [image #2]
<Muta>: gods plural
<Tris>: This is found through that entire attempt to describe the law of opposites, male/female, light/dark, active/passive, and high/low. In eastern traditions, we see this as the Yin/Yang of the Tao, as well as the ida and pingala energies. Surely, aspects of the nature of duality are no accident or coincidence.
<Taron>: (el = god, eloh = feminized, im = plural)
<Tris>: These are in correspondence to the Principle of Polarity as known in various hermetic traditions, so they are all one in the same
<Tris>: These are sometimes represented in alchemical imagery as two opposing dragons, one is winged (volatile), and one is wingless (fixed). Although we have opposing forces that represent separation, they seek union, and to be in balance and harmony. For the alchemist, they strive to reconcile these differences within themselves and create this union.
<Tris>: [image #3]
<mib_tl0u35>: hello i had never heard the name Elohim and in my dreams something told me I was one with THE ELOHIM AND IWAS TO REPEAT THE DAILY
<Taron>: Is that Pluto under the crown?
<mib_wifxg7>: i remember this pic from the last alchemical chat
<horstmeier>: Does this mean we seek union with our dark/evil self?
<steve>: the man in the center seems to be the uniter of opposites
<Tris>: In this image we can see these two forces coming into balance, depicting the union and interplay of the volatile and the fixed
<lichtkind_>: no its mercury
<mib_wifxg7>: i spent days just looking at it
<Taron>: oh... makes sense
<horstmeier>: I thought in alchemy we were to "burn" the evil/bad out of ourselves.
<mib_tl0u35>: elohim must mean power
<Tris>: This reconciliation comes through Tria Prima, or the Three Primes, to further this previously mentioned expression
<Taron>: doesn't look like it, tho...but it's a big crown, hahaha
<Andy_L>: Mercury is also a metal that is both solid and liquid
<steve>: right.. contains both movement and repose
<Tris>: The Tria Prima are Mercury, Sulphur, and Salt, or Spirit, Soul, and body. When the two opposing principles of Sulphur (masculine) and Mercury (feminine) come together, we get the Salt or body which brings together and reconciles these opposing principles within it in order to exist on the material plane in physical form.
<Andy_L>: offten in alchemy mercury is called the messanger or the spirit between the soul and body
<Tris>: In the Great Work, the Alchemists work with the three primes through the same process spoke of earlier, Solve Et Coagula, which is interpreted as dissolve and coagulate. This dissolving is done to free the Soul and body, or Sulphur and Salt, using Mercury or Sprit.
<Tris>: This is also known as Spagyria, and is seem in physical experinments in the Plant work creating tinctures and elixirs
<Taron>: a little bit toxic...sounds somewhat dangerous, haha
<Tris>: In this way soul and body can be calcinated or purified, and rejoined or bound with Spirit making it one again, free from imperfections. All things which exist contain these three principles, corresponding to the Law of the Triangle, in that when the two come together, the third is born, creating the one.
<mib_wifxg7>: so the third is also the one?
<Tris>: specifically, Sulfur = The omnipresent spirit of life.
<Taron>: the third is the first, actually
<Tris>: Mercury. The fluid connection between the High and the Low.
<Tris>: And Salt. Base matter or material form
<Tris>: These are the forces of Creation, and all parts of nature. One of the more well studied aspects of this three-fold nature is that of Spirit, or Mercury, which is the reconciliatory subtle energy.
<Tris>: Known as Hermes, this energy of wisdom can be seen as the staff of the Caduceus, which allows balance and steady rising of the dual nature subtle energies.
<Taron>: ALEPH = AIR = sulfur
<Taron>: MEM = Water = mercury
<horstmeier>: This is the spiritual meaning of the Pythagorean Theorem
<Taron>: Shin = fire = salt? Hmmm.... nah, that's not right
<lichtkind_>: no aleph is mercury
<lichtkind_>: since aleph conects the circle of alphabet
<lichtkind_>: shin is fire
<Tris>: In the western three esoteric systems, there are many examples of the Law of the Triangle, and by many words
<Andy_L>: If u want to use visualise this in your body consider your brain as the sulfer(soul), your Body as the Salt(body), And your spine as the Mercury(spirit)
<lichtkind_>: so is sulphur
<Tris>: in hebrew, shin/aleph/mem
<steve>: i like to remember that sulfer is soul (your 'one') with the word "soulfer"
<kalopsia>: has this already started?
<Tris>: father/son/holy spirit
<Taron>: I know that, which is why I thought I got it, but I guess it's a bit twisted here.
<Tris>: to be active, to be wise, to be still
<mib_wifxg7>: so the triple goddess in western mysticisms is part of the duality and the embodyment of the three aspects?
<Tris>: . In eastern traditions, this threefold creational energy corresponds to Kundalini with Mercury as the Center Pillar, called Shushumna.
<Taron>: I love those consistencies
<Tris>: In identical fashion, we see its purpose as the reconciliation through its energy, its wisdom, that of Mercury
<horstmeier>: In Kabalah we are the Center Pillar
<Tris>: This is the "Raw Matter" of the Alchemist, that which is used to create with.
<Tris>: In Roscrucianism, Mercury is known as the Sophic Hydrolith - which is associated with Wisdom / Sophia, Watery Substance, and a Stone like aspect.
<Muta>: hermes trismegistus
<Muta>: Hermes Trismegistus (Greek: Ἑρμῆς ὁ Τρισμέγιστος, "thrice-greatest Hermes"; Latin: Mercurius ter Maximus)
<Tris>: In this well fitting ancient description, Mercury can be seen as the Watery Stone of Wisdom.
<Tris>: much as we view the physical characteristics of the mercury today
<Tris>: so we have this correspondence in nature
*** gaia is now known as Guest60769
<Tris>: [image #4]
<Tris>: the image above is known as Azoth
<Taron>: In Kaballah Aleph decides between Shin and Mem, Air decides between fire and water... it's neat to look at this as mercury
<Andy_L>: love this pic
<Tris>: In the Azoth, we have a symbolic representation of the principles we are discussing
<Tris>: Because the image contains teh correspondence of all aspects, I recommend to remember this one for reference
<DanielS>: whats teh
<Tris>: Anima is the Soul
<Muta>: *right click -- save image as ... and done
<Tris>: which corresponds with Sulphur, the firs principle within
<Windplayer>: teh=dislexic the
<Tris>: Spiritus Is the Mercury, signified again by its "winged", volatile nature
<Tris>: Corpus is the Matter, that exists within the Cube of Space
<Tris>: Each of these aspects, contain each of them selves
<steve>: there is something to be said about the movement or clockwise motion of this diagram
<Tris>: Anima is Soul
<Tris>: Sol, Sulphur
<Taron>: I think there's a revelation coming on to Wind, hehe
<Tris>: The four elements are also very important to the alchemist, and stand as primary principles as well. We can see them in the Azoth also
<mib_wifxg7>: i noticed the sun is carrying a sword and sitting on what appears to be a female lion while the moon carrys a bow and is riding a hippo that has reins on it
<steve>: good observations lots of symbology there
<Taron>: except the hippo might be a fish
<Tris>: The king sits upon the tame lion, and although the dragon is also tame, it continues nipping at us
<Taron>: dragon, ahhh
<steve>: nothing is drawn without meaning
<Andy_L>: the ego
<Muta>: what is the hand holding above the moon
<Taron>: it's not a joint i think
<Andy_L>: a gord
<Tris>: [image #5]
<mib_wifxg7>: they're standing on the 4 elements
<Thefool>: What does the fish or hippo represent
<Tris>: many may already be familiar with the primary symbols for the Four Aspects, also seen in the image above
<steve>: a hippo is a large animal
<Tris>: They respresent alchemical dissolution, we will cover that in detail in our next discussion
<Tris>: essentially, its immersion in a polar aspects
<Muta>: whats with the the chick pointing down?
<Tris>: The four commonly known aspects are Fire, Water, Air, and Earth as elements, which correspond to current scientific knowledge of Plasma, Liquids, Gas, and Solids. In Qabala, these are known as Yod, He, Vav, He, or Jehovah
<Tris>: The Fire is our Will, the Life-Force or Chi/Qi as it is seen in eastern tradition. The Water is our emotions, and describes how they can easily flow from one temperature to the next when not under our control, The Air is our Intellect, and the Earth, is our body or matter here on the material plane.
<Yzuwex>: So I shouldn't be offended all the times I've been called an airhead?
<Tris>: Again, within these we have the Three Primes
<Andy_L>: from left to right in the pic is (earth,water,air,fire)
<Tris>: [image #6] *note get high res pic, one in amorc libraries
<Taron>: Even beyond that, the elements are understood not as Fire, Water, Air and Earth, but rather as states that are best described by those words.
<Tris>: These four aspects encompass many things, and can be used to easily identify areas of our personality which needs refined and how. Balance between these aspects is the key, and where one aspect is lacking it can be balanced with another as an opposite. All of this builds towards a fully integrated Self, capable of refraining from one extreme of the spectrum.
<Taron>: i wished you had a larger version of that pic
<Tris>: A great example of this can be seen if the works of Carl Jung, who helped a lot in ushering a modern revival in alchemical thought, and discovered its correspondence in his works in alchemy and psychology.
<Taron>: I know that from hermeticism
<Thefool>: I've read something like that in science of being by Eugene ferguson only it was described differently
<steve>: i got a high res for ya taron
<Taron>: I just dislike seeing words and not being able to make out the letters
<Tris>: the following are an example of how jung saw these types
<Tris>: [image #7 ]
<Taron>: Funny, the Jews even outside the Kaballah have what they call the "Threefold Key"
<Tris>: We can see how these match up to the four alchemical aspects being discussed
<Taron>: Intellect, Emotion, Instinct
<Tris>: Intution = fire, thinking = air, sensation = body, feeling = emotions
<Tris>: can anyone identify themselves with a certain type? Most are dominant in one area
<Taron>: sounds like an implication already to say Intuition = will = fire
<DanielS>: so i am air
<Yzuwex>: I've ran out of air before, running only on fire. it was wild.
<mib_wifxg7>: i'm a mix of air and fire
<Tris>: this is where integration comes in, and is vital
<Taron>: i guess i'm somewhere between air and fire
<Taron>: but I used to be more water and earth, haha
<mac>: Id say intuition
<Tris>: alchemy isnt about the rejecting of energies, but rather the transmutation and integration
<Taron>: Yep, think i overcompensated, hahaha
<mib_wifxg7>: really sensation-earth is where i'm lacking the most
<Taron>: but i love the principle for sure... it's a good guideline
<Tris>: for example: the intellectual or intuitive aspect within you may say " I want to start eating healthy and get my body in shape"
<lichtkind_>: wasnt fire will?
<Yzuwex>: yes licht
<Taron>: hold on, i sense something very helpful is coming!!!
<Tris>: while at the same time, the emotional aspect see's a piece of chocolate cake, the energy signature will override the previous intellectual aspects
<Taron>: false alarm
<mib_wifxg7>: no that's very helpful
<Taron>: no, no, it's great, don't worry, I'm just kidding around
<Taron>: nobody's gonna make my chocolate cake a problem
<Tris>: the balance and integration, is found in the center, where all aspects can be utilized equally to make a decision for examples, and then there may be a particular aspect, which may be better suited for the task at hand
<Taron>: flax seed in the chocolate cake while jogging
<Tris>: for example, in certain situations you wouldnt want the emotions to be dominant, when critical thiking or intuitive impressions may be very important
<Muta>: perfect work around Taron
<mib_wifxg7>: what if my consious is capable of two aspects while my unconcsious is in another but they're tied together by one of the aspects
<Taron>: I wonder where alchemy puts pride?
<Sabrina>: yeah ok fire & emotions here
<Taron>: fire&water? Hmmmm.... sounds familiar
<Tris>: Th which allows for this reconciliation is known other than the Quintessence, or Spirit
<mib_wifxg7>: conscious is air and fire while unconcsious is fire and water
<Tris>: sometimes known as the fifth elemental
<Tris>: Modern science at some points accepts this concept, and views the fifth element to be what is known as Ether, where an Alchemist knows this element as the Quintessence.
<Taron>: love it
<Andy_L>: generaly your consious mind is always ruled by your unconisious.... but thats why the alchemist trains to understand his thoughts
<Taron>: (could you stop the red, please, feels like I gotta leave the house in orderly fashion)
<Tris>: There have been experiments in science, to test its physical existence, but poor circular logic was used, and it was determined that since their physical machines didnt detect its existence, it didnt exist
<Taron>: That's so funny....
<Tris>: The Quintessence is not only the glue which binds all other element together; it is also seen as what keeps the elements independent of each other. In Qabala, with what is known as Shin, which also has a quality of Fire, and is generally placed right in the middle, as Yod He Shin Vav He.
<mib_wifxg7>: just cause you can't feel the air when it's not moving doesn't mean it's not there
<Taron>: If you understood the concept of Ether, you'd have to love.... but it's too much for this chat, i think
<Tris>: The quintessence, like Spirit itself in the Tria Prima, can be seen in the Hexagram, or six pointed star
<Taron>: the bar inside the triangles.... any explanation or just some arbitrary cross section?
<Tris>: in eastern traditions, we have the heart chakra in the center of our subtle body, known as Anahata
<Tris>: the symbol of the Anahata, contains the hexagram in its center
<Tris>: [image ]
<Tris>: In the image above, we can see these coming together
<Andy_L>: with the seven alchemic steps inside the cave
<Andy_L>: the three prima ontop
<Taron>: Andy, honestly, please chose gray color
<Andy_L>: the 4elemnts on the outside
<Andy_L>: love this pic too
<Tris>: and the seven below?
<Andy_L>: inside the cave
<Andy_L>: emerald formula
<Tris>: nice, anyone else?
<Taron>: Tree of Life reference or Kaballah again... 3 singles, 7 doubles, 12 simple
<Yachak>: hello everyone
<Taron>: Hebrew Alephbet in this case
<Windplayer>: The seven alchemical planetary bodies.
<Windplayer>: Do I win the prize?
<Andy_L>: hmmm i was tring to figure those out
<Andy_L>: thanks windplayer
<Tris>: very nice - these leads up to our next discussion, where we will cover the seven alchemical process of spiritual alchemy
<lichtkind_>: these are symbosl for more or less the same septenary
<steve>: Thanks Tris I look forward to going through this lesson again and re-reading . tons of great concepts to meditate on
<Muta>: also there is a series of 3 5 and 7 steps to reach the holy of holy's in king Solomons temple
<lichtkind_>: im fire btw
<finwake>: Seven heavenly bodies. right Windplayer, yes
<Taron>: Forgive me, but I have to run... falling asleep and the red text hurts my eyes.. I'll definitely want to find the transcript later. Great stuff again!
<Taron>: thank you!
<Sabrina>: Thank you Tris!
<lichtkind_>: thank you
<finwake>: Windplayer gets a Gold Star
<pat>: thanks Tris, but one question
<Andy_L>: oh is over?!?!?! =(
<One>: thanks Tris, great lesson!
<SKYWRITER>: Thank you!
<Tris>: These will complete the basic aspects of alchemy, and then after discussion, we will begin getting into some more advanced topics
<pat>: is the fact that they are in a circle represent the position in the universe
<Andy_L>: emerald formula?!?!!
<pat>: once again , thank you tris
<Tris>: for more images of the various stages we discussed today, I have posted a visuals page to teh alchemy grou
<Tris>: meditate on them when you are in your inner sanctum, and they will begin to open themselves up to you
<Muta>: good stuff Tris... thx lots
<kozmikfish>: very kind and generous
<Sabrina>: You rock as always!
<mac>: thanks Tris!
<lichtkind_>: if i may do some comments
<Tris>: you are very welcome
<Tris>: for sure litchkind
<lichtkind_>: the orobouros is the hermogenes thats understood
<Tris>: and thank you for waiting, it really helps everyone here
<lichtkind_>: but i often dont know if its closer to the all than sulphur
<lichtkind_>: i really have mixed feelings here
<Tris>: I agree
<lichtkind_>: and you know that these symbols are used for many things in literature
<Andy_L>: on the orobouros?
<Tris>: these are surely aspects of very similar nature
<Tris>: imo it could also signify the completion of the great work
<Tris>: when the mystical union is realized, through fermentation and coagulation
<lichtkind_>: my question is more how you be so sure that sulphur is closer to the all?
<Tris>: because it contains the immortal aspects of the all, the seed core if you will
<Tris>: its actions, or interplay with spirit and its vibrations, furthering its will
<lichtkind_>: and the mercury is the changing aspect
<Tris>: both volatile and fixed yes
<lichtkind_>: thanky oyu very much
<Tris>: the watery stone
<Tris>: thank you, excellent question
<lichtkind_>: i have no clue about these things there is too much elseI just dont get together in my head
<Tris>: definitely deserves more ponder, that's for certain
<mib_wifxg7>: so tris you never answered my question. in the mysticism i've studied it talks about the triple goddess and her consort the sun does this represent the 3 and
<mib_wifxg7>: within the duality equaling the 1
<Windplayer>: In the Secret Doctrine, H.P.Blavatsky says that the 7 planetary bodies co-relate to other levels of heaven or realms. In cabala they are sephira.
<Tris>: following the Law of the Triangle
<lichtkind_>: not all sephira
<lichtkind_>: becasause there are 10
<Tris>: from this springing forth creation
<mib_wifxg7>: so how can 1 of the duality also hold the 3 without dominating her consort?
<Windplayer>: There are 10 in the picture.
<mib_wifxg7>: is it cause the cosort also has tamed the ego?
<Tris>: sorry, you lost me there mib
<mib_wifxg7>: it's me sean
<Windplayer>: 7 below and 3 above. Hmmmm.
<Sabrina>: I knew that
<Sabrina>: that it was you
<mib_wifxg7>: ok so the duality is the triple mother, and her consort is the sun. if she holds the aspect of 3 while also being the duality shouldn't that overpower her consort
<mib_wifxg7>: and make him more of a slave then an equal
<mib_wifxg7>: there by throwing off the balance of the duality?
<mib_wifxg7>: idk i'm going to have to meditate on this a long while
<Tris>: hehe, sorry just not understanding what you mean
<mib_wifxg7>: wel for there to be a duality there has to be a balance of power. if the triple goddess(the moon) also represents 3 which leads back to or equal the one from what you were saying wouldn't that mean she over powers her consort?
<mib_wifxg7>: or does the fact that the consort can tame the ego help balance that?
<Yui>: any alchemy intro books you recommend?
<lichtkind_>: there is a nice picture book by taschen
<lichtkind_>: gazing the pictures is good for start
<lichtkind_>: mib_wifxg7: the thing with the 7 and 3 i see in that way
<Yui>: thanks, ill look it up
<lichtkind_>: there are 4 levels 1 3 7 and 12
<mib_wifxg7>: Yui what helped me get into alchemy is "Carl Jung and the Alchemical Imagination" by Jeffery Raff
<Tris>: indeed, its what got my wheels spinning - one of the first alchemy books I read was "the path of alchemy" by mark stavish
<mib_wifxg7>: i think it's Raff
<Tris>: also, the weiser concise guide to alchemy, short but good
<Yui>: awesome, i will check those out as well. thanks
<mib_wifxg7>: i perfer pics cause they help my meditations better
<lichtkind_>: you have one heart 3 brains 7 chakras and glands and 12 meridians and ..
<Windplayer>: The Emerald Tablet by Dennis William Hauck. Excellent book.
<Tris>: theory & practice
<lichtkind_>: so 7 ist the astral layer
<mib_wifxg7>: 15 shows up a lot in my meditations
<lichtkind_>: since chakras are the 7 gates into your astral level
<Yui>: thanks windplayer
<mib_5kbclb>: So,this is where you're hiding
<mib_wifxg7>: ack *runs away*
<Windplayer>: Yes. The Chakras are another aspect of understanding the sephira.
<mib_wifxg7>: you know the sephira are also represented in yggdrasil
<mib_wifxg7>: the tree of life
<Ommi>: Kundalini power......transformative
<Windplayer>: Yes. The Tree of Life.
<Yui>: is it necessary to do lesser work such as lab experiments in order to do the great work?
<Windplayer>: I see the lab experiments being a point of contact to bring about inner transformation which is all part of the great work.
<Tris>: it helps a great deal, as it helps solidify the work being done subtly on your subconscious
<Tris>: as above, so below
<Yui>: i see